Jason Buss posted a barn burner over on TalentHQ, “Are All Heads of HR and HR Departments Filled With Idiots?” – his facts are spot on and they should make everyone a wee bit angry. I’m a performance person when it comes to recruiting – I’m going to ask you about solving problems and I could care less if you’re pregnant, have a vacation scheduled, or are skilled at brown nosing. If you can solve the problems I’m hiring you to solve you’ll be moved on; if you can’t, you won’t.
What follows is a post I wrote anonymously for “someone else” – somewhat tongue-in-cheek but with a great deal of fact behind it (Jason – you know how the spies are going to drool over this post!) – and with some advice on how job seekers can counteract the actions of some recruiters and level the playing field. Let me know what you think…
For the most part, the recruiting profession is comprised of people who have also sold used cars, been mortgage brokers, or have engaged in multi-level marketing schemes. I mean, what else can that degree in poly sci do when you have a 2.6 GPA and suck at taking LSATs? The people in our profession who are really great don’t find recruiting, recruiting finds them. Big difference.
These people are self-professed experts at post-and-pray – posting a job on a job board and hoping someone good applies – and could care less that they know nothing about the real job other than what is given to them by some low-level peon contract recruiter at a company. If they’re lucky enough to find some dumbass corporate recruiter who is equally inept at finding talent, they’ll make a placement – imagine a 20% fee for a minimal amount of work! It’s almost as good as being a US Senator!
From here, a little success begins to swell their heads – they start thinking that they can actually tell whether someone is good or not simply by reading the person’s resume. This is such a pathetic extension of a little bit of success considering that so few great people have resumes that accurately tell you what they do.
Even worse is when these crappy recruiters start believing they have some innate ESP like ability to sense a good candidate. A dios mio – these people are the same folks who go through relationships like Lindsey Lohan goes through drug counselors! Oh yeah, they’re really good at sensing things…
It gets worse – and I’m certain our dear Hush Recruiter readers have experienced things like these…
The crappy recruiter views the equally crappy job description as the job. If you ask them about budgets, or to whom the position reports, or what specific problems you’ll be working on, they’ll refer back to the job description and ask you if you’re questioning their abilities.
The crappy recruiter asks you to assess your skills in a particular area and then takes your word for it without delving deeper – this is because they do not have the ability to assess your abilities.
The crappy recruiter looks at your years of experience – as light as they might be – and despite the fact that you actually have expertise in the area in question, toss you aside because you don’t fall into the years-of-experience bracket on the piece-of-shit job spec.
The crappy recruiter continuously refers to the company as my client and refuses to divulge the name of it. They do this because they’re afraid you might go around them and go directly to the company (and these recruiters typically brag about their great relationship with their client and gush about how many years they’ve worked closely with them).
The crappy recruiter makes short thrift of your interview if they believe you won’t make them money…they’re curt on the phone with you if you try to have a conversation with them. God forbid you try and ask them questions about a job where they have an exclusive but no details!
The crappy recruiter brings you in for an interview but instead of focusing on you, asks questions about your current employer (I need to know your current org chart so I can find the best spot for you in another company), who you’ve been interviewing with and the names of the people who have interviewed you (leads), and the names of your references before you’ve even gone further in the process (more leads). Does the name Bob Quarter come to mind. 
I could go on but I want to tell you what you can do about these miscreants whose techniques, knowledge and ethics are nothing more than our professions’ version of a miasma of methane…
If you’re currently working, a call from a recruiter can be a career-altering event. When the crappy recruiter calls you and refers to the job description as the job, before you agree to send them your resume, demand the answers to questions about P&L/budgets, size of the organization, revenue, size of the organization you’d be part of, specific problems you’ll be asked to solve…you know, the basics. Alas, the crappy recruiter will insist that you send your resume before you receive answers. STOP RIGHT THERE! Would you pay for a car without knowing which car you were buying? Blindly buy a house? Jump off a cliff because someone told you to? Be sure to remind them you are working, are quite good at assessing opportunities provided you have all the details, and won’t be able to continue this discussion without these. Then wait until the crappy recruiter speaks. Or huffs away and mutters something about your attitude. Ooooh, I’m sorry Crappy Recruiter that I didn’t genuflect in your presence.
When the crappy recruiter asks superficial questions about your skills and experiences, you aren’t doing yourself any good by being silent. There’s nothing wrong about telling them they haven’t asked you how you solve specific problems; be warned – they might come back at you and say that what you’ll do is in the job description. Just look at them with your best golden retriever look (you know, head tilted to the side with a what-are-you-talking-about look on your face) then say, “Okay; then…”
- I’d like to tell you how I was able to reduce DSO by 20% over a 6 month period.
- I’d like to tell you how I saved my fraternity $5000 during the time I was the chapter’s Treasurer.
- I’d like to tell you how I survived my CFO, CEO, and head of HR bombarding me with requests to edit their PowerPoint presentations just before an all-hands meeting of the company.
When the crappy recruiter is adamant about experience over expertise, ask them to describe the problems that the more experienced person will be asked to solve…then explain to them how you’ve already done it. If they continue to say dumb stuff like, “I’m sorry but the job requires 7-10 years of experience and you only have 5…” don’t retreat but ask them to explain how the problems you have solved are different than the problems you would be solving if hired.
When the crappy recruiter refers to the company as my client and refuses to divulge the name of it, first ask them if there is someone in the position who isn’t aware that the company is recruiting for their replacement. If this is the case, it really is a “confidential” search: If the incumbent knew they were being replaced, who knows how hairy the situation would become. But if the recruiter’s tone is even a wee bit arrogant, then you can be sure that they’re playing a power game. In this case, tell them – with nary a hint of arrogance – that you’ll be happy to inform them of your employer only when they tell you the name of their client. For sure they might tell you to get the heck out but at least you’ll be confident knowing that you got their goat. And on the way out, don’t forget to tell them that you plan on telling all your friends about them!
When the crappy recruiter makes short thrift of your interview because they believe you won’t make them money, you need to turn up the dial on your Recruiter Control skills. Yes, you do and should have control: This is where you take the reins and ensure that you aren’t being used, abused, or minimized. Don’t be mean but do be firm:
- You told me that I’m not a fit but can you describe to me the specific elements of fit your client has asked you to consider and assess?
- You told me that my experiences are not applicable but can you describe for me the specific problems I will be asked to solve?
When the crappy recruiter brings you in for an interview but instead of focusing on you, plies you for information about your search, your current employer, etc. – they are using you! You know how parents instruct their kids to not talk to strangers? When crappy recruiters do this to you, run for your life to the nearest exit. Unless you want to have fun with them…then make up names, titles, and phone numbers for people you’ve “met”. To finish it off, tell them how fortunate you were to have found them and that you’ll be sure to recommend them to your friends. Tee hee…
While you might think that recruiters hold the keys to your next job, in reality they cannot function without great candidates. You are seeking a partnership not a one-nighter where all is forgotten the next day with the exception of the very bad taste in your mouth. Great recruiters want the very same thing – a very long relationship where one hand washes the other. But to make it happen you have to be knowledgeable and active; you have to control the interview and not become a pawn used by a crappy recruiter with an equally crappy conscience.
So stop whining about crappy recruiters and do something about them.
The Recruiting Inferno 
Many terrific points here Steve. I have very mixed feelings about where 3rd party recruiting will be in even 5 years. People are waking up and googling and finding articles on ‘candidate experience’ and realizing there is supposed to be a good one. The best experience comes from a good vested internal corporate recruiter in my opinion – however unpopular that might be I don’t care. ~Karla
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A great recruiter is a great recruiter wherever they might hang their hat. Each side has it’s own angels and demons; the challenge is for each side to respect the others’ roles and work for a common cause. It’s no different than a great marriage; it’s far easier to walk away than to understand and work stuff out…
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Great point Steve. A great third-party recruiter has a great relationship with the corporate recruiter.
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A great recruiter is a great recruiter wherever they might hang their hat? Wow! That’s brilliant. The rest of your commentary was simply “mind blowing.” Where did you learn how to pontificate? Absolutely “brilliant.” So, let’s see if we can’t get you up to speed on the moral, ethical and professional issues of recruiting. The basic principle of recruiting is “Identify, qualify, match” based upon a set of detailed job requirements the client desires to fulfill. Recruiters have a fiduciary responsibility to obtain these detailed job requirements, but also a fiduciary responsibility to describe, illustrate and represent these requirements faithfully to all potential candidates, who are seeking to fulfill the role. This isn’t about “marriages”, and it is certainly not about having a common cause. This is a business transaction, very much like a real estate transaction with one drastic difference: there is no “buyer beware” clause. What you don’t understand is that the recruiting profession was designed to be one of high moral character, ethical conduct and moral responsibility. When people like you demean it or make it out to be some sort of dance between “angel and demon” it gives further credence to the call to make human resources recruiting a licensurable profession. We have to keep people like you out of it. We have to keep organizations who # 1 priority is making the fast buck at the expense of a highly competitive workforce out of it. Otherwise, the downward spiral is going to continue based upon the fraud, half-truths and lies told by “recruiters” today, because they have to make quota. It was never, ever supposed to this way: thanks to people like you, no one wins now: everyone loses.
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“What you don’t understand is that the recruiting profession was designed to be one of high moral character, ethical conduct and moral responsibility” – Roman, what planet are you from? If you were of such high moral character you would include a link to your bio so others could see where you work, how long you’ve been in recruiting, etc. Have you ever attended any national recruiting conference of consequence where we’ve been discussing the downward spiral of our industry – for the past 10 years?
You have a very sparse Internet profile for someone who believes they know recruiting. I did find this brilliant piece of fiction which tells me all I need to know about you;
http://www.orlytaitzesq.com/were-our-national-resources-sold-as-a-collateral-for-insane-borrowing-a-hypothesis-by-roman-de-caesar/
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It’s amazing to me how useful and positive this post is for candidates, hiring companies, and third party recruiters. With an industry so deeply despised and so rife with flaws, it should take nothing for you to build a new kind of staffing firm that solves all of the problems and makes you rich.
Unless the problem is more complex than a vague rant suggests – then you’ll just be unfairly smearing an entire industry because you’re trying to point out how awesome you are in comparison. Probably that first thing.
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Folks, Jim’s a real kidder… You hit the nail on this one – I’d sure like people to be more educated consumers. But as we discussed on the phone – lesson here…pick up the damn phone – this stuff isn’t taught anywhere and career management is often left to chance. bad move…
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Fiction offered by recruiters:
“I am part of an extensive network of recruiting offices. So, you only need one recruiter to have access to a multitude of jobs.”
Fact:
These guys are *highly* protective of “their” data. Why would they share the names of high-performers or excellent client companies with their competitors?
I have simultaneously used as many as 75 recruiters in a single search. Never once did I get a phone call, “Hey, I thought I was your recruiter! Another recruiter and I were sharing notes and you have sent both of us your resume.”
—
You are on target with the recruiter’s probes for “companies and openings for which you have already applied.” The *last* thing you need is additional competition from your “own” recruiter.
—
Crappy recruiters = crappy opportunities.
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Amen
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I will agree that the idea of depending on a single Recruiter or firm is of no benefit at MOST half a dozen is enough of a benefit.
You attest you used (75) Recruiters at one time?
So you have no respect at all for MY time as a Recruiter: However you expect to be treated uniquely?
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RW…
Thanks for stopping by and commenting.
75 is simply a stupid strategy; I’ll wager that the bulk of them use the same sources – no exactly “real recruiting” – wonder how many tell candidates, “I have an exclusive”?
IMO, if corp wants quality – and I’ve run recruiting on the corp side – 2-3 recruiters are sufficient for a specific function. Depending upon the depth of the recruiter’s experience and network, it might be 1-2.
When corp tells 1 of 75 that they’re the “one”, it isn’t collaboration at play.
steve
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Not if you do NOT offer your commitment AND prove it – NO
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Wait you guys want respect when you try to arrange 2 calls per week with a candidate to pretend you have a lot of options and follow on disregarding everything the candidates tell you? <3
I had recruiters so far doing stuff like:
1) Answer to emails that say "please do not offer me this x position, that would be a step back career wise and I am not remotely interested" with "Company y has x position for you if you are interested"
2) Not understand the concept of someone having two jobs at the same time.
3) Asking me to email them details that they asked me two days before and were totally explained.
4) Refuse to send my candidacy to a certain company because they asked for experience in "frameworks" while I have 3 different frameworks in my cv although none of them are called "framework"
5) Keep saying they had x position arriving and when pushed revealed the company name to be a company that had just layed off half of their workforce and was on the way to bankrupcy (it did bankrupt not that long after)
6) Keep sending the same typified email to me and colleagues of mine who are not even close in terms of what we do for a living just because 15 years ago we were in the same degree.
And you want respect as a class?
I will respect individuals in your class, I do respect some, but judging by my experience they are very few and sparse, I apologize.
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Why no retweet (share on Twitter) button?
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Just for you I added a slew of share options – thanks for getting me motivated
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Cool. Ta!
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Steve, very true.
But when you are talking about recruiter when they don’t tell the client name, it can be another reason behind it as well. I keep receive phone call from stranger recruiter about a job we are recruiting for, telling me they have heard it from other applicants.
What else they do: they ask about your new position, and are you recruiting anyone, and about your previous job and names of good developers over there.
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Your spot on with the need to keep the client name confidential – usually there’s an incumbent in the role. But you’re also right with the little games that some recruiters play in the hope of identifying the client and sliding someone in there…
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Steve,
Hope all is well… The way I look at it, I get paid for CRD (Corporate Recruiting Deficiencies) or being able to fill the void for non-performing HR Business Partners/Corporate Recruiters/Vendors (RPO, VMO/VMS, MSP; whatever they call it these days). There are many recruiters that say they “can do” but when put to the test they are unable to deliver on the 3rd, 6th or 9th day and warrant more time to perform in a traditional 30, 60, 90 day scenario. My take as I “AGREE” with your comment as to “Why most recruiters suck” but pin the blame on Employers. Yes, I said “Employers”. Having said that, if Employers were stern to hire the best in-class talent with leadership abilities… Shouldn’t they mirror the same idea “identifying & hiring” a best in-class Recruiter, that can actually reference every one of their job experience, from Hiring Managers to HR Manager and C-Level (With a solid provable timeline of metrics detailing how fast they were able to understand the business, build/reinforce relationships, source strategy, qualify/quantify talent and getting the talent hired). One would expect this much from a seasoned Talent Wrangler/Recruiter, right?
Employers, or may I say most employers do not choose that route as their current HR Recruiting Directors, Managers, Lead Recruiters would risk their own FTE jobs bringing in a seasoned “Talent Wrangler/Recruiter”. Then hire the next best Recruiter that fit’s the budget and can get the job done, eventually or to do enough to get by… Then that next best Recruiter warrants the quote “Why most Recruiters suck!”…
– Randy Kishun
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What’s up Randy…cup of coffee sometime?
You’re right that a seasoned wrangler/recruiter should be able to generate flow in a reasonable period of time but engagement and coming in for interviews has many variables. For those who don’t know him Randy works heavily in financial services which has it’s own dynamics with respect to employee movement – recruiter success is a function of sector, available talent pool, etc. all which cross over each other and sometimes produce dangerous flooding that is difficult to navigate through.
But I won’t put the blame on one side or the other – both have their bad recruiters and each has it’s own challenges and objectives that typically run counter to the others. The best recruiters live on both sides and maintain relationships with great people whom they can tap into at a moments notice.
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Someone doesn’t know Randy? LIES
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Very true Steve!! I don’t get when I’m telling Companies – Stop WASTING money on people who piss top talent off so much, do your own recruitment, they are unable to…….
In South Africa it is HORRIBLE!!
I am in fact starting a boycott by all Senior and Intermediate Developers who are better off without recruiters in our way against Recruitment agencies and for Companies to wake up and to realise – If you want Top Talent, source talent yourself – You know after all what it is that you are looking for!!
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Rather than boycott – lumping ALL recruiters into a single category of crap – why not simply help your fellow devs to become better consumers? Just because someone like me runs recruiting for my company – and am an engineer to boot – doesn’t mean all inside folks are.
To be a better consumer, DEMAND to know the specific problems to be solved and not just the components of the stack. Ask the recruiters how they know someone is good or not. You get the picture.
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Well said. If you are around, coffee sometime tomorrow, hit the cell (347) ROCK247
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Nice constructive rant Steve. Thanks
Helping candidates differentiate between good and bad recruiters is an important learning…whether they are in the firm itself or 3rd party/agency folks trying to represent you to the firm.
As a job seeker, getting up to bat is hard enough but with both lousy internal and external recruiters in play, it is a mitigated disaster.
My favorite story is about a top engineering manager who was distressed at his inability to get up to bat for a great opening in a fortune 50 firm despite knowing from an internal referral that he had all the exact key requirements in skill, knowledge, experience, previous companies, school ties etc. (Should have at least had a phone screen.)
I had the means to investigate and it turns out he had been ‘represented’ 6 months prior for a totally wrong job by a 3rd party recruiter who wasn’t on the firm’s ‘preferred vendor list’ and had never made a placement with the firm (that he claimed was a client).
Worse- the internal recruiter handling the ‘old’ assignment and desperate for candidates accepted the 3rd party recruiter’s pile of paper (all of it, about 100 resumes).
You can guess where this is going.
The firm’s expensive ATS had this cool feature to automatically advance or suppress the ability of the the company recruiter to see resumes based on a weighting of source criteria. So, resumes previously submitted by 3rd party recruiters for example could be suppressed for 1 year to avoid paying the fee…no matter how well they were matched. (In this company after the audit I sparked, they found about 4000 candidates suppressed for jobs they were matched to. Dumb policies. Dumb recruiters. (we could spend an hour detailing 60 ways how to this better) Everyone got what they deserved…except the qualified candidate who was not dumb…just ignorant.
I have a similar list about how to work with 3rd party recruiters. I’ll share 2 for the moment:
– NEVER work with a 3rd party recruiter with less than a year in the business. They are simply too desperate and any company that is working with them is even more desperate.
– ALWAYS limit your permission to represent you to a company as follows: state in an email that you must be informed of the specific name and title of the person in the company that the 3rd party recruiter is representing you to. State the title of the job and limit the time for representation to 30 days with an option to renew for an additional 30 days if you like. Finally, request the 3rd party recruiter click reply and state “i Agree” in order for you to go forward. (and that is with folks who can prove they actually have made current placements in that specific firm).
I think there is an infographic in here someplace
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I’ll add a one more Gerry (when I get both you and Sumser to chime in, I know I’m on the right track)…
ASK any recruiter for 2 candidate references at your level (wait until the recruiter gets excited about you first)…then call them
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Steve,
This is a great post. There are few slimeball craptastic recruiters who make the rest of the industry look bad. Companies (hiring managers) need to ask the right questions and know that if something looks to good to be true, then it probably is. The same holds true for a candidate. They get taken advantage of. It’s important to seek out the best recruiters to work with. These are not necessarily the most visible ones but the ones like you who have a blog with posts like this. You are hands down one of my favorite recruiters who isn’t afraid to tell it straight which you also do on your blog.
Jessica
@blogging4jobs
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Hey Steve-
Love this post because it’s a spot-on description of too many recruiters out there. Aside from having experienced them as a job seeker in the past, I personally know several that ‘found recruiting’ after failing (or doing really poorly) at some other crap job or in college. It’s unfortunate that so many candidates have a negative opinion of recruiters and the industry as a whole because there are obviously great ones out there who get it, like yourself. A few job seekers we know have already shared the post and are happy to see that there are ways to negate crappy recruiter behavior and not get taken advantage of.
A
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I didn’t know that recruiters like this even existed anymore. Hmm. Perhaps they’re just trying to make it easier for good recruiters like me to stand out? Nice of them to do that. :-)
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Here’s the thing… While I agree with the majority of what you said… Sometimes, often, we serve someone who has those ideas as being the CORE of what we do, with no changes, nothing else allowed. Churn and burn, for all involved. The candidates, the clients, and the peons, AKA the recruiters. The only thing that matters is the deal. Not the people, just the fee. I have heard Senior Managers make comments saying essentially that they can replace a recruiter any day of the week, sales people is who I want to keep. When the choice is to keep your job or find another that situation isn’t as black or white, you do as you’re told. I wish there was more integrity and honesty but I also wish most of us weren’t 3 paychecks from broke, even the best of us.
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Recruiters need a reality check, here it is…
• In the recruitment/staffing agency-talent-client relationship, the most important person is not the agency or client, it is the talent. Why? Because the agency’s business model is based on providing talent to client companies who have a permanent or temporary role to fill. When a staffing requisition for a client is filled, only then does the agency get paid for filling that requisition. Without talent to place with the client, the agency has no way of generating revenue; without revenue, the agency will eventually shutter the business as a failure.
• Job seekers use recruiters and staffing agencies as JUST ANOTHER TOOL in their search for permanent or freelance work; in other words, JOB SEEKERS DON’T EXCLUSIVELY NEED RECRUITERS/STAFFING AGENCIES IN THE SAME WAY YOU NEED THE JOB SEEKER. Refer back to the first bullet point.
• The recruitment industry is a business of connections and relationships. Every talent candidate that an agency takes on has the potential to be a direct or a network connection to a company that could possibly become a noteworthy new client for that agency (thanks to LinkedIn, everybody is connected to somebody [important] somehow). Furthermore, some of those talent candidates may have formerly been a decision maker or influencer before they sought out your company’s services. When those talent candidates get permanently back to work (and reclaim their former lives) they will remember how the agency treated them. So, now this question is asked, “Will the agency be remembered well and rewarded with a new business lead or referral?” or “Will the agency be remembered for treating someone unprofessionally via playing games or jerking them around only to find my company and the offending recruiter on an internal blacklist?”
And speaking of LinkedIn, because everyone is connected to someone, let’s not forget that every screwed over candidate can be a link in the networking chain that stands between the agency and a desired prospect. That screwed over candidate might very well not pass along that agency’s recruiter’s connection request if they are a point in the path to the desired prospect.
• When recruiters play games with candidates, such as leaving us hanging as to our status after a interview, reaching out to us then dropping off the face of the Earth when we leave a return message or e-mail, etc. This shoddy treatment reinforces the negative reputation of the industry, and for staffing/recruiting firm it generates ill will. Refer back to the first and third bullet point.
• Before the Internet, one unhappy customer would tell five of their friends about their negative experience with a company that wronged them. Today, with the Internet and the multitude of review sites (Yelp, Glassdoor, etc), Twitter feeds, message boards, blogs, etc. al, that number has exponentially grown into the millions. Word-Of-Mouth is now your company’s best friend or worst enemy. What will the screwed over candidate say about your company? Now imagine that this candidate is skilled in SEO techniques…
• The recruiters are direct representatives of the agency, a public face. When they interact with industry peers, a client, or an existing or potential candidate they are a reflection of the agency brand and an extension of the executive management team’s leadership.
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@Cypher 1001, Spot on. True. Seconded.
Signed,
One of the aformentioned screwed over Candidates
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I have enjoyed this article so much, that I am going to print it and put it on my desk as a reminder so that may never become a crappy one! Thank you Steve!
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The worst part, and weakest aspect, of any job search I have ever untertaken has been the recruiter interaction. I have browsed all the above posts and in my mind, as it has always been, the recruiter is the weakest link in the job search. I use the major online services, Monster, Dice, CareerBuilder for getting my profile into the public profile. Doing so has had the effect of leaving chicken to sit in the sun during summer, the flies congregate, as in recruiters, an unfortunate aspect of the job search. Yes I am aware of the privacy and public settings, as well as personal information that can be included on the actual resume.
I would no more trust my client representation to 95% of recruiters than I would trust a known criminal. Seems to me, 5% of the recruiters, local to my area, who have taken the time to meet with me, get to know me, have been shown to be the most effective and trustworthy. I have presented myself to clients where a recruiter firm has gotten me into an interview, only to find the firms have completely reformatted my resume, added bullet items, added vendor comments to the header of the resume, a host of other attributes could follow. In a couple cases, the vendor comments contained spelling and grammar errors. Other cases, vendor added bullet items were misrepresentative of me, not in my own words. The list could go on, and the actual companies associated with the calamity of missteps could follow with it.
I have actually found my last couple positions using my own resources, searching, cold letters to insiders at the client firms I wish to work. Trying to find a job, is a job. Using a recruiter is taking a risk. I have had times where a recruiter firm has submitted me to a client, for which I did not authorize, knew nothing about, and all of a sudden I get a call or an email, you were double submitted and have been disqualified. I have found the latter to be more the case with recruiters who obviously are not from this country, Indians. When I pickup the phone and I hear an Indian on the other end, I simply just hang up.
I could ramble on more than I already have. Recruiters, in my opinion, are a group that lacks credibility, integrity, morality, and ethics. Pretty much low life, bottom of the barrel types, bottom feeders, just for the 95% of the group.
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Thanks for writing this article. I too have had a bad experience with a firm called Foster Connor Recruiting in Carmel Indiana. I am a licensed professional engineer and because this recruiter tried to submit me to a company without my prior approval, they refused to hire me even though they wanted to. Not only are thier practices unethica,l sometimes their actions are just plain out right illegal. Please beware of the firm Foster Conner Recruiting
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Great article. Just one correction: The expression is “Short Shrift” not “Short Thrift”.
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Greetings, someone else may have covered this but I thought I would contribute.
I am a person who was out of employment within the past year and found myself quite eager for a job. I found the lack of response, lack of feedback, etc, very disheartening.
That being said I have recently regained employment, you guessed it, as a recruiter. It was my prior and current field, and I honestly love it. I get candidates tell me these horror stories, and I get weekly candidates telling me that THEY SAID NO TO FLY BY NIGHT AGENCIES because they are too smart for them, however they would like to apply to a job through me because I understand the position, their credentials, and respect the years of work that make up their resume. I applaud those candidates.
My agency is 6 people. We are boutique. Recruiting is very competitive however before even getting started on a position I do my research in depth. Where do I research? IT professional forums. Those are my stomping grounds. The best thing I can do as a recruiter is let someone technically gifted tell me what their average work day is like. Thats where we learn. I do extensive research to be respectful of the knowledge of the people I call. That is what I would hope for as a jobseeker putting myself out there, and that is what I think anyone deserves.
I will note a correction though. Recruiters DO NOT ask where you are interviewing to somehow circumvent it. We do it to protect ourselves with the clients, in respectable operations. It is NOT that I want to know what other places need IT individiuals–its that I don’t want to have you interview for a position then have to withdraw you because unbeknownst to me you accepted your dream job elsewhere. SECOND, we do this to protect candidates. Many clients–and we do not pick our clients as recruiters, those are set by the organization we are with– will blacklist someone if they spend the time interviewing them and then the jobseeker backs out. My company services just about every major financial institution in the country, and if you blow it once, unfortunately our clients do not often give second chances.
Please take the time to assess your recruiter as a professional. If they are not providing you with a service and aiding you in your job search, you have a right to cut off communications. There are those of us that are very competent and passionate about what we do however, and I would ask you to bear that in mind. You will find similar “Good and bad” in the hiring managers, the operational managers, and the HR professionals you go through to obtain any job. While there are the bad, being utterly dismissive is a bit like cutting off your nose to spite your face.
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JT, “Recruiters DO NOT ask where you are interviewing to somehow circumvent it.”
Yes they do – it’s a well known ploy
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I have no problem with the flat plainness of the relationship presented by the recruiter, myself and the business-unit. My problem is that the recruiters are often unprofessional, ill-informed, unwilling to learn from their mistakes, unwilling to take accountability for their own flaws, and unapologetic when the ball went out on their play. Today, a recruiter presented me to an interview with a conference bridge for me to use to speak to the hiring manager. Since I am an actual professional with actual value and actual integrity, I bracketed my time and situated myself in a silent room with a notepad and materials(be willing to bet 99% of recruiters dont even use notepads). I dialed in at one-minute-before, was informed by the conferencing system that I was the first caller to join. about 4 minutes in, a no-caller-id call came. I, again being a mature adult professional, declined this call because my time was allocated. I waited an additional 4 minutes before emailing the so-called professional recruiter. He did not respond. When another 5 minutes had passed, I hung up from the conference bridge and checked my new voicemail. It was a confused and unhappy hiring manager wondering why i was not available to speak to him at the agreed-upon time that he had called me. No number to return his call was left. I tried the other phone number for the ‘professional recruiter’. No response. This is why intelligent people don’t respect you.
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Reblogged this on SharePoint Samurai and commented:
While you might think that recruiters hold the keys to your next job, in reality they cannot function without great candidates. You are seeking a partnership not a one-nighter where all is forgotten the next day with the exception of the very bad taste in your mouth. Great recruiters want the very same thing – a very long relationship where one hand washes the other. But to make it happen you have to be knowledgeable and active; you have to control the interview and not become a pawn used by a crappy recruiter with an equally crappy conscience.
So stop whining about crappy recruiters and do something about them.!!
A call to Arms to ALL South African Developers – Boycott CRAPPY recruiters!!
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There are a lot of ‘crappy’ recruiters out here. There are also a lot of good ones who absorb the reputation of other ‘crappy’ recruiters which makes their job infinitely more difficult. A few things to consider: 1) Recruiting is highly competitive and as a candidate you should NEVER expect a recruiter to tell you the name of their client until you have met said recruiter face to face. We do have to protect our business. (Which leads me to point #2). 2) We are generally 100% commissioned sales people who provide a free service to candidates. Bad recruiters have a habit of discarding candidates that can not make them money immediately, I agree. Don’t mistake not receiving a phone call ever week from your recruiter as being discarded. Our time is extremely limited per candidate when you consider the number of candidates we meet. Personally, I try to loop back with candidates who are ‘fee eligible’ at least monthly and candidates who I can not justifiably expect a fee for (job hopper, priced out of market with unreasonable expectations, large gap in employment, etc.) I will tell them that I am probably not the best resource. We must focus our efforts on candidates that we can place. It is a reality that bad candidates can’t understand. 3) I am not paid to find you a job. I am paid to find my clients the best possible candidate for their position. Which leads me to my final point. 4) Our clients pay large fees for us to find them someone who has a track record of successfully doing the job. They are not looking for someone who CAN do the job they are looking for someone who has done the job is a waste of everyone’s time if I present a candidate who doesn’t meet the client’s minimum requirements. Just a few things to consider.
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Luke, do you recognize the metaphor of Bob Quarters?
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Long story short. You are the scrappy recruiter the article is talking about.
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ouch
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We’ve never met, you work at Robert Half, and you’re angry that I mentioned your employer. Understandable…
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Robert Half? LOL, these guys are just as bad as anyone else, they phish Monster.com Indeed, and CB… they blindly email and call people simply by reading their phone number and “Seeking” or Resume “Title”, because if you’ve ever spoken to one they ask you a million questions about your resume, so obviously they haven’t even read it. Then, they do not even have a position to offer. Do you know how many times I have been contacted about a “Service Desk Position” in “Morristown” NJ, yet no company name, no information regarding salary, work hours, job description… god forbid you get a job description it looks so phony like it was copied and pasted from somewhere else, then you will get about 2-3 more people from Robert Half and other companies calling you about the same/similar position… absolutely no coordination among co-workers… pathetic. These agencies really need to all just burn to the ground one day, sorry… but they are not only hurting the economy by trying to profit off other people’s hard work, but now they just simply abuse and crap out of everyone they can to stay on the phone as long as possible, look as busy as long as possible, and get through their day… achieving nothing.
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As Professionals we can choose to whine about the flies in our ointment; the bottom feeders, offshore call centers passing as Professional agents ect. or simply embrace that sad fact and learn to capitalize off it.
Within very problem there also exists opportunity.
After 34 years in this industry (That’s right children no job boards..no web..no email..no social media & no cell phones) I take great offense that the industry has been lowered to such a standard: however knowing that the majority of my “competitors’ are no competition at all brings me great delight.
With every interaction whether verbal or dynamic; face to face or by telephone I have the opportunity to distinguish myself AND my service from the pack and define my worth.
At the end of the day candidates NEED this industry as much as our clients.
Candidate’s only want to be seen beyond a role or function; have their own interests recognized and their REAL value appreciated.
Once you are able to do that you establish your OWN value and instantly gain infinity.
Once you have built credibility in a potential candidate’s mind the trust will follow.
Once you deliver on your commitment to the best of your ability you prove yourself a true asset.
That’s how this business has AND will always work.
RW
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PERIOD.
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So true… I have been getting harassed by these people who find my resume online offering me positions that don’t even exist. Anytime I’ve asked about an interview they want to know my Skype or best contact # to reach me at (duh the one you called).. They always seem so nervous, anxious, and just mummble and stutter endlessly. They cannot pronounce my name correctly, they literally just take my number off the resume and don’t even read it. They see “Seeking IT Tech Work” or something and call. Collabera has been one that has called me 5-10 times a day. I am so upset, and actually disturbed at how they act. They’ve actually found my new phone number, as well as a family members number and called them before when neither number was posted on my resume… so they must have searched Google or something for my name and location and just blindly called. I’ve never gotten an interview from any of them, they’ve wasted literally hours of my time, whether talking to them, having them fill my voicemail box up on a daily basis, it’s sick. Collabera had this guy Santhosh called me nonstop, I would actually answer to see what was up, absolutely nothing just asking me when he could call back… I’d say tomorrow. He would call 10 minutes later. I had the same guy call me from 2 different area code/numbers, email me from two different email addresses, the same first name but two different last names… Something is up, because I’ve never seen or heard anyone so eager to try to employ me within 8 hours of posting my resume. And the position is always so bland “Service Desk Position Open” Wow, that could mean a million things!
I started a blog because I believe this type of harassment needs to be documented. I simply called it The Temp Agency, too bad if they don’t like seeing their names and numbers online, it’s time America fought back. Nobody deserves to receive so many nonsense calls a day while at work (when seeking more or another job)…. Too bad, they want to play games and annoy people, they deserve to be documented online. Maybe if enough people pitch in it could stop, I imagine maybe one day they will get tired of it, but I doubt it… Until then post the facts, these people need to be put to a stop!
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Excellent idea.
I have been Recruiting in this business decades and it sickens me what it has become.
For what it is worth I get contacted by these same jokers day in and day out for a plethora of positions that I in no way even remotely qualify for.
In my experience they have all bu destroyed the credibility of a business I love.
Even worse it is increasingly difficult to distinguish or separate our service from this pack of mongrels. Technical Recruiters are looked at as incompetent-lepers.
I myself have been working on the same type of Website.
What’s your web address?
RWS
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The problem faced today by the candidate is huge as there are many crappy recruiters in the market and thus became difficult for them to select the best one. your articles highlighted many point that what one can avoid when dealt with crappy recruiter and keep their info safe and don’t get fished with them. But does, everyone is that active or knowledgeable? They have tricks and tactic and thus a job seeker got fished with them. For making the job searching more transparent the review platform recfluence.com is their for you. One could make choices there to select the recruitment agencies and make their job searching more better.
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I have never found a job through a recruiter and I have spoken to probably over 100 during the course of my career. I never understand why there is very little follow through once you vet a candidate. If a candidate doesn’t work out for one role, you seldom hear from the same recruiter again. That seems incredibly wasteful for the recruiters and “their clients,” and for job hunters. If recruiters treated people like individuals and really understood their talents they would save themselves, “their clients,” and job hunters a great deal of time and money because the next time a job came along, they would have candidates to choose from. One tip: never, ever waste your time going into a recruiting agency, meeting with the team, and filling out reams of paperwork. A total waste of your time.
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My favorite “recruiter” tactic is when they call you and try and data-mine you for rates, time in positions and who your current supetvisor is. I usually give them heaping piles of misinformation just as you said.
Also that Roman guy…. Hahaha!
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Interesting,,,,I think this is all a BIG FAT wast of time. you will never win someone always has a better
watch someone will be little this, its funny…yes if you get asked for references before they even see a resume. there shopping for the sales department for leads. I protect my references my Bosses tend to get a bit pissed when they have recruiters cold calling there desk phone.
Yes most are not going to be lock step with me, i would not expect them to know the level i do
and I DO thank them for that. most will come to me and ask to go over the requirements. if i think its a good match ok if not, no and will enplane to them why. I do not expect them or any HR person to be at my level at all….if they are, there pretending…i know i know OH that not true i know this guy….LOL…funny thing is all i have heard for 30 years is ow to do an interview ect, ect, ect,
how about YOU don’t know how to Interview….but im the manager….lol so. as i said you dont know how to interview…
example and ill close.
i get rat holed so bad its as if hey are trying to find a reason not to hire you. or a 23 year old interviewing a 30 year vet and he just doesn’t think your a good fit because you didn’t fit the shoe box 5 questions are crack HR team came u with…makes me want to vomit. pat on the back bro i just crushed 4 interviewees LOL… sad ! the company is the looser not you
Very high level fortune 50 company calls me. he looks at my resume we just talk about stuff real relaxed. not one rat hole question. I was in no way qualified for that job on paper…i would have gotten beat to death in a full panel interview…..
in 3 months i took over as lead mechanical engineering
i corrected a failed project at a cost of 90 million and submitted a Patton for the company.
I was hired perm..
my point? I’m not a mechanical engineer at all…. Tom Brady was drafted in the 6th or 7th round
chew on that
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as much as I wanted to be part of this topic because I am going through problems with a recruiter right now, I can’t take this contrast. Why did you build this page looking so terrible dude? fix the contrast. This is my first time working with a recruiter caller too. I have all types of questions and concerns. can’t read this crap though. sry
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Recruiters are crappy. I applied to Apple One and Jones Networking. Best of my knowledge they offered jobs with generic descriptions, never followed up with me, never responded to correspondence or phone calls, and asked shoe box questions.
How can these people select candidates based upon how they “feel.” Most are low level, low caliber themselves. They look for key words, ask irrelevant questions, and try to pump you for information on job leads.
Job hunting is tough these days.
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